Recapping Lunguage 001 here:
Lunguage 001 - The Two "Thank Yous" in Cantonese - 多謝 VS 唔該 In Lunguage 001 we talked about the two "Thank yous" in Cantonese, 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) VS 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1). There is only so much time in the video, so we will put the summary of each episode up on Lunguage Blog, a further discussion as well as other resources if you would like to explore more on each topic. Recapping the basics As we know now the two "Thank yous" in Cantonese carry their own connotation and cannot be used interchangeably. We have a brief summary (updated!) of the situations where you would use 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) or 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1) below. It basically boils down to the following rule of thumb: - 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6), literally "many thanks", is used for things that are given to you: from the physical or monetary gifts, food or drinks, to the intangible words of compliments, blessings, advice, suggestions, comfort and respects, to the even more abstract ideas such as effort, cooperation, contribution, participation, attention, hospitality, appreciation, support, opportunity, time, help, custom or patronage. - 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1), literally "should not"; when it means "thank you", is used for acts of service that are offered or done (meaning you can say it before and after the actual act). This includes nice gestures people do with no obligation, such as holding the door, picking up something you dropped, friendly reminder, etc., and also small favors you ask people for, such as borrowing money or items, buying lunch for you (and paying them back), etc.. It can also mean "Please" and "Excuse me", as in getting someone's attention, whether to ask a question, or to ask them to kindly move out of the way (notice it does not have the meaning of interruption, disagreement, or apology as in English). We shall talk more about this as we dive deeper into the etymology of 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1). Rejection Just as English, you would still say "thank you" even if the offer is rejected. Nothing too complicated here (yay!), it works the same in Cantonese. - Do you want this (offering to give it to you)? No, thank you. 唔使喇,多謝 (Mm4 Sai2 La3, Daw1 Tze6)。 - Do you need a ride (offering an act of service)? No, thank you. 唔使喇,唔該 (Mm4 Sai2 La3, Mm4 Goi1)。 When the line blurs It may be an oversimplification to categorize the kinds of things to express gratitude for as shown above, sometimes the line can be blurry. If you want an easier formula, generally you can ask yourself a few questions: - For a physical or monetary item: "Am I borrowing this and will be returning it?" If so, you would definitely use 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1), as saying 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) would imply the item was given freely to you, that would be awkward. But if whoever lent you the thing ended up giving it to you, then you have all the rights to say 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6). - For an action: "Is this an act of service?" If so, you most likely want to use 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1). - For words: "Is this a friendly reminder (there is broccoli in your teeth) or more like an advice (maybe you should try listening to other people better)?" You'd say 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1) for friendly reminders and for anything more formal, serious, or flattering, 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) is usually safe to say. It all comes down to how we define the categories. Some of them are easier to understand, such as patronage, or a gift as opposed to a borrowed item, but some others, not so much, especially the more abstract ideas: Action fulfilling duty, responsibility, and obligation: Effort, cooperation, contribution, participation, attention... etc. Action as a gift, or something given to you (conditionally or not): Hospitality, appreciation, support, opportunity (e.g. job offer), time, help, volunteer... etc. Well, yes. "Time". I guess there is no returning of that. So there. It's a 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6). But wait a second, don't hospitality, help, and volunteer also count as "acts of service"? That is the tricky part. When 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) is used for the examples above, it is usually referring to the bigger picture, the complete act of such. So for instance, you're invited to someone's home for dinner, the host hands you a glass of water or a napkin, tells you where the bathroom is, etc., you would say 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1). When you leave at the end of the night, you would say 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) for the overall hospitality offered to you. Help can be even more tricky, as there are all kinds of help out there, big (donating a kidney) and small (holding the door); sometimes even just the thought of helping means a great deal that a gratitude is expressed. Help can be a gift for sure, expecting nothing equivalent in return; it could also just be a kind gesture, received as a borrowed item, returned as a favor, or passing it on through doing it unto others. It would depend on the context whether to use 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) or 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1). But if you think a certain favor or help is so significant that it morally entails a debt of gratitude, almost in the form of grace (which is "恩 (Yun1)" in Cantonese / Chinese), 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) is the one to use. While I cannot find any reference to back myself up on this, I do think this is not necessarily because 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) is somehow a more sincere or serious word of gratitude, but more so because of the complicated connotation of 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1). 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) literally means "many thanks", hence it is the most straight-forward way to express pure gratitude without any other possible meanings. The etymology of 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1) As briefly mentioned in the video, 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1) literally means "should not" in English, as in "you should not have to do this for me". You may be scratching your head thinking how it ended up being a word of gratitude, that does not make any sense. The "undeserving" sense of the word, however, is an evidence of its history as a humble speech. It is also the reason why 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1) has adopted not only the meaning of gratitude, but the other two, "please" and "excuse me" as well. The purpose of humble speech is not so much to degrade oneself or flatter others, but rather as a reminder to not take any service, help, or kindness for granted. The culture and mentality behind Language is complexly intertwined with its related culture. You will find a culture's mentality or worldview deeply engrained in even the simplest phrases like 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) or 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1), not only in the etymology of the word/phrase itself, but how it is used in the culture. 晒 (Saai3) is a very commonly used word in Cantonese, it is a auxiliary word often added after 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) and 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1). You will hear the locals say that (or a variation/ combination of such) all the time, instead of just 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) or 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1). It sounds more natural and has a softer tone. Don't overlook it though, 晒 (Saai3) also carries its own meaning and can subtly attach additional connotation to the context. As we get deeper, you will see the crucial significance of auxiliary word and modal particle in Cantonese. 唔該晒 (Mm4 Goi1 Saai3) can be used both before and after the act of service is done. When it is used before the act of service is done, or even if it was never done, it means that the person asking for the favor already considers the action done and wants to show the appreciation only by the other person agreeing to help or offering to help. In English there is a saying "consider it done" meaning one will gladly do something that he or she has been asked to do. It is very interesting to see how the role is switched in Cantonese, the person asking for help is supposed to express this very same implication and assume the other is very glad to do so. However the paradox lies in the literal and original meaning of 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1), "should not". So the mentality behind is: This is something you shouldn't have to do for me, but I will assume that you are doing this gladly, and I appreciate it very much that you have such a heart of gold, so thank you! Wow. Complicated right? When it is used after the act of service, it quite simply has the meaning of "all" and "everything". As for 多謝晒 (Daw1 Tze6 Saai3), you will likely only hear it after the act of giving is done, in that case it means "thanks for everything (that you have given)". Lost in translation due to cultural differences Perhaps merely learning how to say "thank you(s)" in Cantonese is much more complicated than you thought. In reality, meanings get lost in translation so easily that we almost take the culture that comes with the language we speak for granted. The revelation of the complicated mentality behind an ordinary phrase such as 唔該晒 (Mm4 Goi1 Saai3) might be mind-blowing to English speakers, because the person in need of help should always assume the other is willing. In the English speaking culture, this can be seen as a rude imposition: Not that I don't want to help, but why must you imply that I "shouldn't have to do it" yet at the same time assume that I am willing as if this is an obligation? While in the Cantonese speaking culture, such assumption does not necessarily lead to an obligation, rather it highlights the kindness of the person offering help (even when the action has not been done yet). As mentioned above, the "undeserving" connotation of 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1) is an evidence of its history as a humble speech, which is one of the honorific systems still widely used in other East Asian languages such as Japanese and Korean. Such speech is used more flexibly in Chinese languages nowadays, so Cantonese speakers may not be required to think about it every day like the Japanese. As the language evolves, however, the mentality remains, even without the speakers realizing it sometimes. By stressing how undeserving the receiver him/herself is and assuming how willing the person offering help is, the act of service by contrast is seen as an ultimate expression of kindness which the speaker does not take for granted. Would you have guessed 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1) possesses such profound meaning? On another note, I have noticed the repeated use of words of gratitudes like 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) and 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1) is far more common in the Cantonese culture than in the English culture. The repetition is of course a way to stress how thankful one is for the other, it could also serve as a "softener", as I will call it, so it doesn't sound as blunt as a single 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) or 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1), or as dramatic (or sarcastic in some cases, just like how the word "thanks" is sometimes used in English) as a whole phrase of "真係多謝/唔該晒你!" (literally "really thank you very much"). That explains why maybe the seemingly redundant "多謝多謝!" or "唔該晒唔該晒!" is used more often in general. So the more culturally accurate English equivalent for "多謝多謝!" would be "thank you very much" instead of literally "many thanks, many thanks". If you have read up to here, you might have already noticed the omission of pronoun in the Cantonese words of gratitudes. In English, while the word "thank" can be a noun and used as a plural to express gratitude casually, the pronoun "you" is often connected with the verb "thank" to specify whom the speaker is being grateful for and express gratitude in a more formal way. In Cantonese, words of gratitudes are often used without a specific pronoun, because it is mostly likely implied in the context. So in case you were wondering, saying 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6) or 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1) without the pronoun you, 你/您 (Nei5), is more than sufficient and does not have the same casual connotation as "thanks" in English. In fact, pronouns in East Asian languages are not as commonly used in general as in English. The overuse or misuse of pronouns can seem unnatural or even rude in some cases. Maybe a little bit of TMI for now, but we will be sure to talk more about this another time. :) Fear not. Languages are confusing. Still confused? No worries. After all, languages are living things spoken by living people, shaping a certain community's culture and worldview, there are bound to be a lot of ambiguity, confusions and even exceptions as a language developed over hundreds and thousands of years. Even the locals would be confused sometimes! But one of the best ways to learn a language is still to immerse yourself in that culture. Practice hearing it and speaking it. The more you hear it the more you will get the feel of it. As Cantonese speakers we never officially learned the differences between 多謝 & 唔該, yet we just know which one to use, only because we hear it and use it so much in our every day lives. Same for English speakers, for example, ESL learners may be caught up in the whys of a certain grammatical rules, yet without understanding fully what the grammatical logic behind may be, an English speaker will not make a mistake such as "I look forward to hear from you soon". So fear not, take your time! Languages can be confusing, it is completely okay to be confused. Just keep trying, and don't ever be afraid to get deep into the history and culture behind to grasp it better. Last but not least, thank you, 多謝 (Daw1 Tze6), for sharing your time with us! Naomi realized she forgot to say that in the very video that talks about "thank yous", haha! Special thanks, 唔該 (Mm4 Goi1), to Wai Ming Chow for catching that. :p See you all next time! References (unfortunately there really isn't very many resources in English on this topic, we tried our best to incorporate the following resources and explain it in English): 粵語學習網(學說廣東話)-多謝、唔該同唔該晒 http://www.fyan8.com/wugai.htm 我恒我訴:唔該與多謝 https://orientaldaily.on.cc/cnt/lifestyle/20110404/00329_001.html 「多謝」還是「唔該」? http://languagemystery.blogspot.com/2013/12/blog-post_11.html 唔該 @Wiktionary https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%94%94%E8%A9%B2 課堂 25 「曬」與「晒」之別 http://www.cantonese.asia/attachments/oncc/lessons/025.htm Blurring the Line between Language and Culture https://www.languagemagazine.com/blurring-the-line-between-language-and-culture/
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Check out our blog from time to time for other learning resources recommendations and updates! Featuring here are a few channels about Cantonese and/or Languages: Sue Marguerite's Cantonese Corner Meet Sue Marguerite! There isn't too too many resources about Cantonese in English on the internet, and Sue is one of the few YouTube channels out there making an effort to preserve Cantonese through teaching the English speaking audience, while Sue herself is a "foreigner" living in Hong Kong. Truly touched by her effort, passion and love for Hong Kong and its language. She is very sweet and has her own story about how she ended up learning Cantonese and living in HK. She teaches a lot of the basics of Cantonese and occasionally some life bits sharing and conversations with other guests. She even has videos teaching people how to play Mahjong with her mother-in-law! For English speakers looking for introductory Cantonese teaching videos, be sure to check these out. Super thankful for channels like this! 頴珊頻道 | The Wingshantsui Channel A super fun channel I found a while ago, really like how lively Wingshan is and I have always loved how she does her topics, always a delight to watch. She speaks in Cantonese in her videos but with both English and Cantonese subtitles. So for those who aren't too familiar with Cantonese just yet, no worries! This channel has a wide variety of topics, but they may be more appealing to the more advanced learners and/or Cantonese speakers. There are lots of Canto-puns involved, and a ton of cultural references, it's a great supplement if you already know some Cantonese, and want to find out more about the fun facts, cool slangs, idioms and local culture. But it is still valuable for those who are just starting to learn, after all, Cantonese is a living language, and it is just as important to get to know the culture connected with it. Learn Cantonese with CantoneseClass101.com If you are looking for more structured, practical Cantonese lessons, this is the channel for you. They are by far the most popular Cantonese Teaching Channel with 9 years of experience. They have a wide variety of topics including a lot of useful words and phrases for every day life, and tips on learning. It is like a video textbook! They have an official website with PDF lesson notes to download as well. Feel free to check it out! Tom's Language Files : Season 1 On another note! Here's a fun channel I stumbled upon today. It is a series in Tom Scott's channel about language, mainly English, but it is very much eye-opening to watch. There are a total of 3 seasons. Don't miss it! Sometimes it is helpful to compare your first language to the other(s) you are learning, you will find yourself understanding both better in the end. Analyzing how different languages work is a fascinating process. How languages evolve - Alex Gendler Here's a nice animated video about how languages change and evolve, it never ceases to amaze me. Enjoy! Lunguage 001 is in the oven!!
Coming out soon, FINALLY. While we wait, be sure to check out this awesome article "WHY ARE WE PROUD TO SPEAK CANTONESE?" https://zolimacitymag.com/why-are-we-proud-to-speak-cantonese/zolimacitymag.com/why-are-we-proud-to-speak-cantonese/ Here's a great resource recommended in the article, a Cantonese-to-Cantonese Dictionary https://words.hk/ Lunguage For the love of Hong Kong |
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